By passing a test one can become a Brahman in Bali – Questions on Castes in Hinduism

By: Mandar Dhayagude

I have few questions about social problems in Hinduism I am struggling to get answers of these question for last few months. Interestingly the questions are increasing day by day as I think on it and try to find answers.

I have tried to discuss these questions with the main stream scholars  but by and large they are avoiding these questions.

  1. There are 18 castes amongst Shrilankan Sinhalese. These castes are occupation based. Following is the list of those castes along with their traditional occupations Ahinkuntaya – Gypsies , Badahäla (Kumbal) – Potters , Bathgama – Traditionally cultivators. Called Palanquin bearers during the British period , Berava – Tom-tom beaters , Govigama – Traditional cultivators and herdsmen , Haali- Weavers, Hannali – Tailors , Hunu – Lime burners , Kinnaraya – Outcastes , Navandanna – Artisans many sub categories, Pamunu – Tenant farmers , Panna – Grass cutters , Pannikki – Barbers , Patti- Herdsmen , Porowakara – Wood cutters , Radala – Nobility of the Kandyan Kingdom , Rajaka – Dhobies, Washermen , Rodiya – Outcastes , Wahumpura – Jaggery makers .

Out of those 18 castes 2 castes namely Rodiya and Kinnaraya are outcastes. It is important to note that Sinhalese people are Buddhist for last 2200 years.

If Hinduism is only responsible for creating caste system and Buddhism is a kind of revolt against Hinduism as it is only caste based religion. Then how one can explain this reality?

On the other hand none of the above mentioned castes, is having history that goes beyond 1000 years, this is similar to the case of most of the castes in India as well.

  1. Emperor Ashok has embraced Buddhism, but after becoming Buddhist how law enforcement mechanism in his empire is changed? I mean has he replaced Manusmruti (although Manusmruti was written in second century AD, the other texts exists during Ashok’s period) or any other Hindu script for law enforcement  with some other book or with any other mechanism.

If yes please let me know about that? If not what is social significance of his changing religion?

The above question is true for all those kings in ancient India who became Buddhist.’Vinay Pittica’, the Buddhist script, on similar topic exist but it never got matured enough to replace the old Hindu scripts.

Now if Buddhism is a kind of revolt against social discrimination and there is a history of so many Kings in India becoming Buddhist, then why they could not produce anything that will replace the old discriminatory things.

  1. In Thailand there was a King RamaThibodhi (1350 to 1365 AD). This person has done two major things that effected the future of that country.

First he declared Buddhism as official religion of  the country (earlier it was Hinduism). Second he translated the Hindu scripts related to Law (Manusmruti and other such books called as Dharmashshtras) into Thai language. The Translated book is called as also called as Dharmashastra.

This book is considered as official book for law enforcement until 1932. Dharmashastra is supposed to be backbone of current Thai constitution.

My question is why there is no caste system in Thailand?Most important question is after becoming Buddhist what Thai people kept the Hindu scripts for law enforcement?

  1. There are castes among Muslims and Christens in India. According to Mandal Commission there are 135 OBC castes among Muslims in India. Whatis the reason behind it?

Obvious answer to this question is, the ancestors of Indian Muslims were Hindus and they carried their caste system along with them to Islam. But there is a catch in this argument. I will explain how, Indonesia is a country that is latest convert to Islam from Hinduism.

In 1478 AD Indonesian King Braha Varman became Muslim and the entire country became Muslim in next 300 years. But the spread of Islam in Indonesia was comparatively peaceful. So one can find Muslim a person with Hindu name. For example Meghawati Sukarnaputri was name of a former president of Indonesia. Name of current president is Sushilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Both of them are Muslims. One can find plenty of muslins in Indonesia with Hindu names. There is no caste system among Indonesian muslins.

My question is, Why those people who did not change even their names after changing their religion from Hinduism to Islam did not carry their caste System with them to Islam? As it is supposed to be happened in India.

Or blaming Hinduism for Caste system is baseless? If not How?

  1. Coronation ceremony of Thai king is done by a Thai Brahman. This tradition is going on since the formation of Thai state, since early thirteenth century.

Phra Vamdev Muni is the name of current chief Brahman priest for the current Thai emperor. He is called as ‘Raj guru’ and he is getting a treatment like living God in Thailand. ‘Phra’ meaning delightful is a title allowed for Royal Family members and the Raj guru.

Indraditya is the name of first king of Thailand. Neither his ancestors were from India nor he was anyone from the Khmer royal family. In fact he revolted against Khmer empire, created his own state, named it as Ayodhya that later being known as Thailand.

He declared himself as knower and protector of Vedas. He was coroneted by the then Thai / Khmer Brahmans. No one opposed it.

My question is what is difference between Chatrapati Shivaji and Indradiya? Alternatively what is difference between Thai Brahmans and Brahmans from Maharashtra ? Or what is difference between contemporary Thailand and Maharashtra ?

  1. The Maheshwari community is originally Kshatriya community (popularly known as Marwaris in India, Birla, Rathi are some eminent surnames among them) , but later became Vaishya because of pressure from Emperor Akbar.

The reason is that people from these clans were living in Akbar’s territory and they helped Rana Pratap against Akbar.

In the same way Brahmans from Maharashtra were forced to oppose Shivaji’s Coronation ? If not why we can find numerous examples in India and outside India that a person with humble background could become a king among Hindus. Why Shivaji was the exception? Was there any interest of Mughal empire in that?

7.Interestingly there is no caste system among Indonesian Hindus. Bali is a state in Indonesia. Its population is about 4 million. 94% people of Bali are Hindus.

Here anyone can become a Brahman by passing exam conducted by Parishad Hindu Dharama Indonesia. Parishad Hindu Dharama Indonesia is organization of Hindus in Indonesia.

  1. In north India there is one Caste Gurjar. It is an OBC caste. This group is migrated from central Asia to north India in 5 th century AD along with Huns. There are many clans among Rajputs who claims Gurjar Ancestry . There is a sub caste among Rajastani Brahmans called Gurjar Brahmans. How one can explain this phenomenon.
  2. There is a OBC caste called Kushwaha and there is a clan in Rajputs called Kushwaha. There is a OBC caste called Chandel and there is a clan in Rajputs called Chandel. Alternatively one can say that for every clan among Rajputs there is a OBC caste with similar name. How one can explain it?

  3. The recent DNA report reveals some important facts I will summarize few of them – There is no major external migration in Indian subcontinent for last tens of thousands of years. It clearly means that there is no Aryan Invasion. – There is no Dravidian race, there is no Aryan race. There were two races Ancient North Indians and Ancient South Indians. Those two races mixed up some 40 thousand years ago. Since then there is no major racial change in Indian subcontinent. – Castes are like clans, each caste is having founder effect. The founder event ranges from 30 generations to 100 generations means from 600years to 2000 years max. And before that it was common ancestry.

How one can explain this with existing social theories.

  1. Anywhere you go in Latin America or even in USA, and ask any native Indian (be it Inca, Maya, Red Indian, Aztec or any)about the Spanish, English and French people, you will find a kind of bitterness about them.

Why such a bitterness is absent in South east Asia (Indonesia, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand etc) about India and Indian people.

If upper caste people are so cruel and they enslaved people of their own country, then why they spared people of Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia etc. Although there is huge cultural impact of Indian culture in these countries there is no flow of population from Indian subcontinent to South east Asia in recent time.

Can one explain it with current Social theories?

12.For getting causes of Caste system people go up to Manusmruti  (many people to up to Rig Veda) at the same time they do not consider the all countries that comes under Hindu sphere of influence, i.e. to say from Afghanistan to Philippines.

What is reason behind that?

13.Many Latin American countries have caste systems based on classification by race and inter-ethnic marriages. The caste system was imposed during colonial rule by the Spanish.

Under Spanish rule, a detailed caste system was instituted in at one time, classifying individuals according to the race of each parent. For example, Mestizo had a Spanish father and Indian mother, Castizo had a Spanish father and Mestizo mother, Espomolo a Spanish mother and Castizo father, Mulatto a Spanish father and black African mother, and so forth.

It is said that all people converted to Christianity in India is only due to caste discrimination. All intellectuals in India believes in that. Above mentioned facts contradicts to this belief?

  1. What is the exact social impact of foreign rule on any civilization. Every society is having social hierarchy, but this social hierarchy is flexible. In ancient India there are many examples in which people have changed their caste.

A few of these types of examples are given by Romila Thapar who is ‘main stream’ ( read marxists) historian, in her book on Ancient Social History of India.  Now why the flexibility is lost, when it is lost and most immortally what is the impact of foreign rule on that. What is impact of losing prosperity (reduction in resources due to loss of trade and commerce) on this flexibility. Is this impact is ever studied by anyone ? In this regard, it is interesting to know what happened in Bali (Indonesia) during the short period of  Dutch occupation ( roughly 35 years, starting 1908 to 1942).

During this period the Balinese moved towards a  rigid social order with the 4 Varnas became 4 castes. Earlier the Varna system exist among them but there was free movement of people from one to another.

One can observer that the social condition in Bali in early 20 th century is much similar to the situation in ancient India ( in terms of flexibility in social order, the fact that is accepted by the main stream historians as well).

How these Balinese  people came out of it after the Dutch rule is also very interesting to know.

By: Y. K. Wadhwa

Ref:  “7.Interestingly there is no caste system among Indonesian Hindus. Bali is a state in Indonesia. Its population is about 4 million. 94% people of Bali are Hindus. Here anyone can become a Brahman by passing exam conducted by Parishad Hindu Dharama Indonesia. Parishad Hindu Dharama Indonesia is organization of Hindus in Indonesia.”

Apropos of  the above point No.7 regarding anyone becoming a Brahman by passing examination in the state of Bali.

Somewhat similar practice is being followed in Arya Samaj and the Vedic Gurukuls run by it.  In accordance with the Vedic principles and dominating spirit of Manusmriti(without interpolations), Arya Samaj since its inception in 1875  has been emphasizing that caste is based on worth and not birth.

Irrespective of their hereditary caste, Purohits of Arya Samaj who are qualified as Shastries, Acharyas, M.As. or Ph.Ds are addressed as Panditji since they do the work of a Brahmin.

I understand that Late Dandi Swami, Pracharya of Gurukul Etah (U.P.), used to emphasize that his students (irrespective of their family background) on completion of their Vedic studies should use the title of  ‘Sharma’.

This was in clear contrast to the prevailing practice since ordinarily the Sharma title which means a person engaged in intellectual-mental labour(shram) and is used by birth based Brahmins.

Well known example is that of Vedic scholar and writer Late Pandit Ganga Prasad Upadhyaya(1871-1968) of Arya Samaj, Allahabad who was born in a Kayastha community.

As per some information received more than 50% of Purohits-Pandits (who are all qualified) working in over 300 Arya Samaj temples of Delhi hail from OBC/Dalit background.  Some of these  Pandits have won laurels for themselves as Vedic scholars.

Even before independence children born of so called Shudra parents were admitted to the Arya Gurukuls mainly for Vedic studies.

In fact none of the students in these Arya Samaj run Gurukuls while staying together in the hostels knew the caste of their fellow students and all of them were required to wear holy thread and same Indian dress irrespective of their background.  The entire emphasis was on providing quality education.  In today’s context,  the methodology adopted by Arya Samaj shall be quite relevant for upliftment of  the downtrodden sections of the society, unification of all classes and to purge the society of the evils of hereditary caste system.

However, Arya Samaj does not stand for plucking the eye in order to cure the eye ailment i.e, in order to eliminate caste distinctions it does not reject the ancient social order.

Especially in its earlier days, this great institution founded by Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati attempted to restore the Vedic Varnavyavastha in its original form which provides for mobility as per Gun, Karma and Swabhava.

The four fold ancient varna system has its own uniqueness which offers equal opportunities to all for self development as per ones personality traits.

Vedic Socialism does not recognize that any one is higher or lower.  Rigveda (5.60.5) says all men are alike where no one is superior ‘ajyeshthasah’ or inferior ‘akanishthasah’. Mahatma Gopal Swami Saraswati in his book “Human Rights and the Vedas”( Siddharth Milan, New Jersey, Ed.2001) has rightly remarked “Vedas advocate unequivocally equality for all without any distinction of colour or race or language.”

Vedic Varna system is actually connected with division of labour of various kinds of jobs.  Irrespective of geographical location, it  is the need of every society to remove four social ills, i.e, ignorance(agyan), injustice(anyaya), inadequacy(abhava) and indolence(alaysya) through professional categories correspondng to the functions of four Varnas.

I have few questions about social problems in Hinduism I am struggling to get answers of these question for last few months. Interestingly the questions are increasing day by day as I think on it and try to find answers.  I have tried to discuss these questions with the main stream scholars  but by and large they are avoiding these questions.

PM Modi’s welcome at Silicon Valley is opposed by Wendy Doniger etc.

By : (name withheld for privacy reasons)

Please read the list of names signing the petition below. Some observations:

None of them have tech background, yet they are claiming to be policy experts on tech advising authorities what is best on the matter.The list of western nexus leaders has no surprises; if anything many of them now choose to remain unnamed publicly.

But the list of Indian sepoys has expanded and now has many new members including younger scholars. This is part of the trend to recruit more Indian who will lead the fight, while the white folks guide from the background.

Thats how British sepoys functioned as well. Please note these names. Note how easy it was for Richard Fox to mobilise Indian sepoys who did not even to think independently and investigate for themselves because the white man gave orders to start firing. You should expect more of this.

Sadly, 99% of the Hindu leaders in India and overseas have no clue of the sepoy army – who they are, who/how/why they get training, etc. Hence many Hindus fund, invite, sponsor, read these very same sepoys.

What does that tell you about the level of leadership and whether they are sufficiently informed to become leaders?

You should expect very soon that Indian sepoys will now be rapidly “made in India”. Sepoy training has infiltrated Indian institutions right under the nose of our leaders, and in many cases they are inside the organizations claiming to defend Hinduism. What an achievement for them!

Yet most of us continue to evade the core of this problem by going on blaming outsiders.

(Note: It is a Faculty Statement on Narendra Modi Visit to Silicon Valley. As faculty who engage South Asia in our research and teaching, we write to express our concerns about the uncritical fanfare being generated over Prime Min……. a video posted to oppose according fanfare welcome Indian PM Narendra Modi).

Damn with ”Caste by Birth” – proof that Caste is by ”Karma”

By: Satchitanand

What more corroboration one needs of the fact that Varna or Caste is not by birth but by one’s Karma. Here references are given and all the references are internal.

The fact that the itihasas and puranas do not dwell as much as we are obsessed with varna, itself is the biggest proof we need. How many characters from itihasas do you want.. Vidur, Valmiki, Vishwamitra.

Even the idea of classifying one as Deva, Asura was based on their svabhava. Hiranyakashipu was a dreaded asura, but Prahalada is perhaps the most evolved person in that lineage.

Internal references also give shudras like Sabhari..

Bhagvat Gita 18.42

samo damas tapah saucamksantir arjavam eva cajnanam vijnanam astikyambrahma-karma svabhava-jam

Translation ”Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness-these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work”

Brahmana is by their attitude, work ethic, outlook..

I happen to think that Krishna is a much bigger authority than all our alpa minds put together.

B. G. 18.43

sauryam tejo dhrtir daksyamyuddhe capy apalayanamdanam isvara-bhavas caksatram karma svabhava-jam

Translation ”Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas”.

Kshatriyata is also from attributes. That’s why we even had kings from different varnas.You can read them in detail.. but the key word is svabhavajam.. BORN OUT OF Svabhava.. not just janam.. birth..

B.G. 18.45 and B.G. 3.35.. outline that it does not matter what our svabhava or varna is.. by fulfilling the role to the best we all can evolve higher and further is Krishna’s assurance.

I can give a brief list of historically verifiable saints, still revered..Gora Khumba – Potter, highly regarded in Maharashtra, Karnataka.

Please read about Kanchipurna in Ramanuja’s life.Kannappa Nayanar – a hunterThirumangai Alvar – thief.. by the way there used to be communities which were thriving in this profession, till the Brits hijacked the idea and introduced them as thugs and thuggery.

Many siddhas from Tamil Nadu, several Alvars and Nayanmars..Nandanar is highly esteemed.. was a pulaya.. even today pulayas are not held high in society..The list can be on and on..


As Hindus, we all believe in janmas. so if I were of a specific varna. what was I in last or will be in the next.. wont my janma get transmitted.

KARMA is the key.. even to our janma.. our janma is determined by our KARMA.. past ones.. so it is very obvious that the great seers of the past saw beyond mere this janma.

Conclusively, both by examples and by the foundation principle of Karma one can conclude that its our svabhava based on our vasanas that give the platform, but our current KARMAS are more potent than just our past (which is the reason for our birth).

We all can raise above the THREE GUNAS.. Let us do Purushartha.

India must plug its loopholes to command respect!

By: Aditya Malhotra

It is interesting to note the Mexico angle in the current economic slowdown and uncertainty. While I do believe there must be a strong influence of the Church on the government of USA, I do not believe it would be over riding when corporations want to make profits or at the same time that can be looked in isolation of geo-political constraints in the world.

Business fundamentals ultimately drive commerce between countries.I do not think Mexico has a chance of providing the same stability and demand as compared to China.

Do not forget China is one of the biggest holders of government securities in the US. It is also the only country presently to drive growth in the world.

No country, including India would want Chinese economy to sink. It will be catastrophic if that happens.

Not only China or US,every country today respects strength. It wont be an aberration to say today “Strength respects strength”.If you are weak,you will be either subdued (like the Russians) or “digested” of all your original thoughts,  discoveries and inventions, and leaving you of an image of a wretched eternal borrower from others. As it is rightly pointed out,we must invite respect.

India has seldom been an agressor in its history. This is one of the reasons why countries think they can do anything with us and get away. And when they do they tend to think they are supreme. Aggression here doesnt necessarily mean war,it also means propaganda and also effective deterrance.

I still cannot understand what is the ideology of India and how it wishes to sustain it.

A country must not demand respect, but be worthy of it. If you dont respect yourself, do not think anyone else to respect you.

Just because India has a billion people,it does not qualify for respect. Respect can only be achieved when the majority of the billion is unified in ideology and direction.

No one will come and elevate India,the country has to do that itself and must think of international action ,only as a supplement,not as the driver of eleviation.

We still have a long way to go.

(Addition by Leena Mehendale)

While agreeing with the views of Aditya Malhotra, I would mention  two more factors — one is of Christianity, other of Sanskrit.

America is also influenced by the church and “Theory of supremacy of Christianity”  under which lots of efforts are under way to break India and to end Hinduism.

It will be perhaps easier to break india than to break china — at least the latter is not on the agenda of christianity.

Today chinese people are fast taking to christianity but without losing their Cultural thread. If there is a strong state of China in future, steeped in christianity, then both America and Pope will welcome it.

In India the conversions are happening more out of compulsion of poverty. So the christian religion leaders have to focus more on India and hence America will not drift to India unless we agree for large scale conversions including the rich and the elite.

Secondly the treasured knowledge of Bharatiya people is too big — through sanskrit Granthas and the Hindus can recapture it with much less efforts  unless it is completely under western Intellectual Property Rights.

Thus the tenacity of Indians for non-conversion is higher for which again the pressure on Political America is from the religion America to keep India as adversary while accepting China as a partner.

Wendy Doniger – A sex-obsessed woman tries to teach India

By: Ragini Sharma

How ridiculous. Wendy Doniger is dealing with her own repressed/obsessed sexuality and that of the prudish Euro-Christians she represents.

Its laughable that she is preaching sexual freedom to Indians, the land of Kamasutras. She needs to analyze why the Catholic priests are continuing their sexual violence on minors and why US is the land of pedophiles and pornography which targets children in poor countries, which she chooses to ignore.

The type of nonsense she calls academic writing appeals to the racist ideology that she and her cohorts subscribe to. Does she not know that she is a laughing stock of Hindus who can see through her racism?

Yes, Hindus are hurt and angry too – but they are turning that into taking action to expose her hollow and shallow academic work. She is the Eliade Chair? On what basis? Eliade wrote extensively on Yoga.

Does she know anything about Yoga or Patanjali – beyond her sexual obsession or is it her vanity that she thinks she knows it all.

Under Patanjali’s sutras, her state of consciousness would be Avidya – or ignorance, which is giving importance to something that is not importance, which is her obsession with sex. She also suffers from Dwesha or hatred towards Hindus based on racism. Plus there is her Raga or craving for fame, even it is based on hate-mongering and false propaganda against Hindu literature.

The entire corpus of her work is a result of an ignorant mind. Patanjali calls this kind of virtue – Viparyaya – its the activity of the mind that leads one to impose and project your own views, ideas and feelings on others.

She needs to go meditate and repent on her sins against Hindus. In conclusion, message to Ms. Doniger: please stop imposing your sexual perversion on India.

I think we can handle our own problems. Instead, you and your parrots are needed to counsel the American Govt and others about the rising sexual violence and perversity in your own country.

Caste and Swami Vivekananda


Salary and perks of Members of Parliament in India

By: Murthy Krishna

Salary & Govt. Concessions for an Indian Member of Parliament (MP).

Monthly Salary :50,000

Constituency Allowance per month : 45,000

Office expenditure per month : 45,000

Traveling concession (Rs. 8 per km) : 48,000 ( eg. a visit from Kerala to Delhi & return is: 6000 km)

Daily DA/ TA during parliament meets : 1000 per day

Charge for 1st class (A/C) in train: FREE all over India (for any number of times)

Charge for Business Class in flights : FREE for. 34 trips per year (with wife or P.A.)

Rent for MP hostel at Delhi : FREE

Electricity costs at home : FREE up to 50,000 units

Local phone call charge : FREE up to 1 ,50,000 calls.

TOTAL expense for a MP [having no qualification] per year : 35,00,000 [i.e . 2.92 lakh per month

TOTAL expense for 5 years : 1,75,00,000

For 543 MPs, the expense for 5 years : 9,50,25,00,000 (Over 950 crores).

This is how all our tax money is being swallowed and prices hiked on our regular commodities……. And this is the present condition of our country.

Reference for above figures:

(Also search google)

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